Indecent Matrimony ? California Legalizes Gay Marriage

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) – California’s Supreme Court declared gay couples in the nation’s biggest state can marry — a monumental but perhaps short-lived victory for the gay rights movement Thursday that was greeted with tears, hugs, kisses and at least one instant proposal of matrimony.

Same-sex couples could tie the knot in as little as a month. But the window could close soon after — religious and social conservatives are pressing to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot in November that would undo the Supreme Court ruling and ban gay marriage.  Full Story

The Beef …

I’m sorry, did I miss something here? The public which makes the laws said, “No gay marriage in the State of California.” Yet the California Supreme Court said, “Yes!”  Forgive me a moment, but aren’t the wishes of the public the lawmaker’s responsibility to represent?  I believe marriage was only meant for a man and a woman. As a parent, I don’t want my children to see gay marriage as legal. It’s not just my personal beliefs being cast aside, clearly my thoughts and values are in line with most of California’s population.  Shouldn’t the Supreme Court be representing the voice and will of the majority in this instance?   California has already provided the privilege of Domestic Partner Laws and Benefits for gay couples. Enough! It is time for the public to take back America.  In November when this comes up on the ballot, just vote No!  A clear message must be sent to our law makers that we have a voice, and when we use that voice, you have to follow our wishes.  California is not for gay marriage.  Californians have spoken, now the government must uphold the law. 

~ Ken Letizia  Author / Contributor

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52 comments so far

  1. John Corbett on

    Yes, you did miss something. We live in a constitutional republic, and not a full-blown democracy. Conservatives had no absolutely no problem with a handful of faceless electors overturning the popular will of the national electorate in 2000. Why? Because those were the rules.

    It is true that California has referendums. But it also has a constitution. Its constitution represents the state’s supreme law. If a public referendum conflicts with the constitution, then the constitution wins. Those are the rules. Any other result would be judicial activism of the most rank order.

    Californians will most likely have the opportunity to amend the California constitution this fall on the issue of marriage, so if Californians really feel the way you think they do, they’ll have their opportunity to have their say.

  2. Stevo on

    John, you say this like you know something about state law, and public referendum … but what do you know about the rules governing “the beefs” ? The first rule.. and uhhh, the only rule thus far cause I’m making this up as I go.. is do not upstage the author until there is at least two non-informed comments preceding you. It’s only right to give the author a few minutes to glow in his creation before you shoot it full of holes :) But otherwise, excellent post. Cheers.

  3. Cecil Jones on

    Stevo, I didn’t know the “Beef’s” had rules? At the risk of upstaging the honorable host, I’ve got a few thoughts about “Glatrimony.” This is a word I coined like Steven Colbert coined “Truthiness.” Glatrimony is the “Gay-Lesbian Alternative to matrimony.” We are caught up on defending the word “Matrimony.” Here’s the truth. God doesn’t care who keeps your china. Glatrimony is all about who keeps your stuff and who can pack it legally. I’ve heard people attack Cornholers and Muffinlickers, but this is just jealousy. This kind of sex isn’t my bag and their stuff doesn’t have extra value on E-Bay. Keep sex out of the workplace and I don’t care who keeps your disco balls and albums. The real problem here is Conservatives use homophobia to drive up turnout in elections. Did anyone take a census before trying this in California? There may be more LBGT’s than illegal aliens and “They Can” legally vote. God will judge us as individuals. The Courts should not discriminate based on hate. It’s easy to get upstaged when you are wrong! Don’t worry Stevo, gay doesn’t rub off. If you are curious, I’m sure a handsome guy like you can find a Team Player if you just roll your tongue, wear an earring, or use hand signals in the restroom. You could meet a Senator to pass a law that denies “Full Faith and Credit.” No Res Judicata…There goes the Constitution!

  4. austinbaby31 on

    When the close minded mass votes a law into effect that is unconstitutional the state’s lawmakers should be able to overturn it. Regardless of what your views are on homosexuals and gay marriage, the only thing you should be considering in this discussion is if the decisions were the right one. They are!! It’s unconstitutional and encroaches on individuals’ rights as citizens of this nation.

    Whether or not you agree with homosexuality, if two people who love each other want to be “married”, create a home and have the same rights as every other married couple in the U.S. then they should have that option. You cannot treat people as second class citizens just because you do not agree with their sexual preference. It’s discriminatory and wreaks of ignorance. and for all those people that say they do not want their children to grow up in a society where gay marriage happens, then I say to you I really hope your child does not happen to become one of the gay individuals you are discriminating against. A worldly person will teach their children tolerance and acceptance of others, not ignorance and discrimination.

    Times are changing, as must the laws; whether or not you want to call marriage between homosexuals “gay marriage” or a civil union, either way the rights established must equal the rights of the current laws governing marriage between man and woman. There is no other way. Bravo to CA lawmakers for overturning that vote.

  5. Stevo on

    Cecil, you’re barking up the wrong tree. Just because I posted the beef, doesn’t mean I entirely support or endorse the views of the author. Guess I should put a disclaimer as such, but I hate asterisks. I am a big believer in the freedom of speech, the press, and more importantly, the freedom to beef. I thought Ken made a fair argument, and thought it a worthy subject for discussion. I suspect Ken enjoys stirring the pot as well. For the record, I have no problem with same sex marriage… Live and let live.

    Excellent post AustinBaby … I was going to say exactly the same, but “live and let live” was easier :)

    Cecil, I’m still digesting and deciphering yours … what comes out of your mind and onto these pages never ceases to amaze me.

  6. Roger on

    For those of you who are content with our black-robed “friends” LEGISLATING from the bench, I truly wish you the best, as you’re obviously of the co-dependent mindset. The fact remains, a MAJORITY of California’s citizens are vehemently against placing the judiciary’s powers above the legislative branch of government.

    Truthfully, though…gay marriage in California is a moot point. My money says their constitution will be changed to reflect the fact that marriage is NOT a constitutional RIGHT, no matter the gender, as it should be.

    For the fruits and nuts out there OVERLY concerned with public recognition of their sexual preferences? Go pound sand.

    And Steve? You certainly know how to pick the most volatile of topics to discuss. Keep up the good work, my friend.

  7. Doug on

    Im gay and the LAST thing I want is to be able to marry another man. I say leave the misery to the straight people of the world. Loves love no matter how you look at it if its real the need to marry really shouldnt matter. I have No problem at all with leaving the marrying (and divorce) to the fine straight people of this lovely world that still refer to “my kind” as cornholers. You deserve to keep marriage all to yourself!

  8. Cecil Jones on

    When the Mothership returns, I’ll save you a seat? I’ve realized that I don’t see things the same way as many people. It’s a good and bad thing. I’ve learned that if you don’t see eye to eye with your boss, you have a tendency to be unemployed longer than Al Gore and Coach Bobby Knight. Soon I’ll send my thoughts in poetry. Bury me “Face Down” too? I love Gore and Knight; but I’m not gay. I don’t do sign language and I’m allergic to jewelery. Make my butt itch.

  9. Ken Letizia on

    First, let me say, I have gay friends, and my kids call them Aunt Josh and Uncle Steven, much to Josh’s protest. LOL! They too agree with me that gay marriage just isnt right.
    Next, I dont appreciate the terms being used, Muffinlickers and Cornholers. I realize this is a free post, and I will defend your right to say anything you want to. I am just asking respectfully asking that these terms or other worse terms not be used.
    OK I am not trying to put anyone on the spot, I dont care about the inner workings and loopholes that CA law has in it. I am concerned that when our common opinion tossed asunder for the good of the few, this case gay marriages, it becomes easier for those in power to say to hell with what the people want, you will do as I tell you.
    Now, I am against gay marriage, and I dont see it as real or recognizable. Men and women who wish to love each other, fine, its your choice. I support anyone’s right to love another. There are just something’s that are meant for a man and a woman together. Marriage is the first step, well unless your a teenager these days, to procreation and a deeper stronger bond with another in a way meant for men and women. Homosexuals, have their ceremonies and meaningful get together to profess their love and affection. God, whom I believe in, doesnt recognize this lifestyle and it says in the bible it is an affront to Him. I am not pushing my religion on anyone, just explaining where my morals and norms come from. My beliefs motivate my concerns. So, as you all believe differently, so will your opinions of the topic. I value all your input and I thank you for the incredible dicodemy of repartee. As Steve said, I do love to Stir the Pot and I like to get the blood flowing.
    Last, Please, I would ask that no one take this personally. I appreciate all of you as writters, and as with the Eight Belles topic, I learn alot from all of you and it is good input. So, please I would ask that we all remain friends and keep the discussion just that a cultured discussion of varying people and input.
    Thanks Ken.

  10. Ted G on

    The fabric of America is under attack. To say that “When Anything Goes, Everything Of Value Also Goes” is true.
    What has become of the “Will Of The People?” We as a nation have allowed the courts to make law rather then up-hold the laws. America is drowning in a sea of Minority Rule. The Gay Community , The Black Community ,The Latino Community ,the list goes on. What of the “AMERICAN COMMUNITY?” You know , the folks that work hard every day , pay their taxes ,the vast Silent Majority that is taken for granted in Washington and the Courts each and everyday. Who speaks for them?. The ACLU , the Courts or all those in Washington that have lost sight of who put them there and why they were sent to Washington in the first place. Who rules America now? Is it the Minorities or is it the Majority?

  11. Thomas Colby on

    Umm, All I can say is what the hell?
    How can people be so scared of Gay Maraige?
    I think people, well alot anyway, are just plain scared of marriage, be them Gay or Straight.
    And why does it have to be “Gay” and “Straight” people. Why does one have to be presented as “imoral” and “Wrong”?
    Why are Gay caracters on television always Feminine Gay Men? I know lots of Gay men who are not anything like that, But they never have shows about them?
    We can certainly find issues with anyone, be they White, Black, Mexican, Yellow, Man, Woman, Gay, Straight whatever way we were born. OH, i know some people will argue that people are not born “gay”. Ahh, yeah right, that makes no sense, people are already pre-determind gay or straight, it doesn’t take a much to realize that. No one in there mind would just up and decide to be Gay. Not in a world where they are deemed less of a person, or in Gay mens situation less of a man. Yeah it sucks, be it seems like thats they way they are presented.
    I am sure most people have found that the Gay people they know in their lives are strong and decent people. There is always an exception, as in anything.
    Anyway the entire Gay Marriage Deal is only a reminder of how far we have and have NOT come as a society. We have come far enough to allow Women to Vote, Black People to have Civil Rights, Gay People to congegate in public…………….. you know it seems like allowing Gay people to love and marry the person they are in love with would be a no brainer? But I forget, we still have a long way to go.

  12. DeeBoo on

    Say folks, here’s a solution. From here on out all couples, gay or straight who desire a legal union will have a civil union first. All the legal clearances, none of the religious claptrap. If you want to have a so-called “marriage” with wedding, religious sanction, a million dollar MGM production, yatta-yatta, you go at it afterwards. That way no religious right-wingers or closet paranoids like Mr. Letizia here get their panties in a wad over same-sex couples having a so-called “wedding”.

  13. Gabe on

    Lets break this down for a second. This may be my understanding but isn’t marriage derived from the bible, and further more the church? Why is it left to decide by the state who can get married? It’s bad enough divorce has made a joke of marriage, now gay marriage will as well. I’m all for civil unions, but marriage?!?! Marriage is meant for a man and a woman to live together and make little babies, PERIOD! Before everyone gets all bent out of shape, i have no problems with gay people, just them trying enter in to “marriage”.

  14. Thomas Colby on

    LOL, I love that line….”I have no problems with Gay People, just them trying to enter Marriage” Do you have any idea how bad that sounds? Any? No, I didn’t think so.

  15. Ken Letizia on

    Deeboo, religion to me is not, in your trailer park lingo, “Clap trap.” It is something real to me and if I were a closet paranoid as you suggest, would I have openly said, I am against gay marriage? My gay friends who agree with me, are they in the paranoid closet too? Perhaps you should turn to whatever you believe in, though a door knob may not give answers, and ask for clearity on how to live your life.
    So much for real conversation and input.
    Gabe, you make a valid point. Marriage is defined in the bible and its purpose, as laid out by God, is clear. Procreation! Men cannot impregnate each other, and women wont get pregnant from latex. I guess the term as laid out by Deeboo, is Civil Union? Ok, well that should be the limit of the law for gay couples. When you allow religion and country to be eroded by groups looking for so called equality, you are allowing them to destroy the very fabric this country was built on. America, is not yet a third world country, but you have gay marriage, illegal aliens, and Mike Neudow trying to get rid of God all destroying what this country stands for. Once you strip a nation of who they are, what do you have left? You have a nation with no belief and no direction. The USA could end up like India, Pakistan, or Mexico, basically over populated and beging at the world door step for aid and help to find itself. At some point Americans have to say enough. I have said, enough, and I want to start putting my country back on the right path.
    We belive in God, we are defenders not attackers, we are not the world police, and we take care of those here at home before we go off giving aid to others. Is this bad? It’s time for America to care for itself and its people and the rest of the world can fend for themselves. We have so many major issues here that need addressing and gay marriage is a joke that will take time, money, and resources to resolve. Why, because once again the gay community wants to launch another attack against our countries beliefs.

  16. Helios on

    You homophobic bigots are vile, evil, and just plain wrong. First of all, the function of the Supreme Court is not to uphold whatever the “majority” votes for. The function of the Supreme Court is to defend the constitution from being attacked and degraded in exactly the fashion that you bigots would like. The court is duty bound, by everything that makes America great, to uphold the constitution. If the court simply rubber stamped everything that the majority wants, we would still have segregation. This ruling is a huge victory for freedom, justice, and equality. I am as straight as a man can be, and I am celebrating this decision because I love freedom. There is no “gay agenda” there is, however, a FREEDOM AGENDA! The constitution must apply to everyone, or it is a meaningless piece of paper.. If freedom is denied to anyone, then it is destroyed for all.

  17. Thomas Colby on

    Message to Ken, Why don’t you just say you hate Gay people? Just be a man and say it. and then deal with the issue that you have with Gay People. All this needless dribble is transparent.
    And good job of generalizing the people of Mexico, India and Pakitstan. Wow, I just was thinking that people have become more informed and loving. As a Christian I am suprised at your ignorance and stupidity, I feel bad for you and will keep you in my prayers.
    As for all the other junk you are saying… remember this.. With power comes responsibility. Oh, and by the way, THERE IS NO GAY ADENDA! lol, thats so funny that you would even say that it makes you look ignorant. I dont think you are, but comment like that make you look like it.
    Heres a day in the life of your average gay person.
    1. Wake up
    2. Have Coffee
    3. Go to work
    4. Work, have lunch, get off work at 5pm.
    5. Go work out
    6. Have dinner with family, friends, or alone.
    7. Play sports, Watch television, Movie, Music, or some other social event, ect.
    8. Go to Bed
    Wow, hmmmm, this is the way you see it…
    1. Wake up, make plans to overthrow the goverment.
    2. Coffee, then lobby for gay marriage, civil unions.
    3. Conspire with other Gay people to destroy society and ruin the lives of straight people.
    4. Go to work, and make every effort possible to advance the “Gay Agenda”.
    anyway, it goes on and on, my point is, Gay People dont have an agenda, they just want to live without fear and pain and be recognized as good Americans just like everyone else.

  18. Ken Letizia on

    Thomas, I am not a gay basher, obviously you did not read all of my posts above and your comments are made of ignorance and anger. Please, read the comments above before you spout off about what you do not know.
    Thomas, what does God say about being gay? You said your a Christian, what church do you attend that supports and encourages gay coupling? Maybe, you should revisit the bible and talk to your pastor, or priest.
    If you think America is doing well, in these times of, “Do what ever you want the world will embrace you,” your crazy. At some point, a clear definition of right and wrong must be laid down for our children and society to follow. We have many things wrong in America today. And to cast aside the meaning of Holy Matrimony is just another example of the erosion of our society. Examples. Kids go to church Sunday, and carry a gun to school Monday. We allow everyone to cross our borders, and then 9/11 happens. The film industry creates films with moral abandon, and you have our youth killed in side-show accidents or they think committing suicide is cool. Nothing is perfect. And in many cases, you just have to deal with it. Maybe, for me, this is one of those times to just deal with it. But I would rather say something, make my voice heard. I have as much right to voice my opinion as anyone. I have gay friends, my children love them and so do I. I just have my moral opinion and I feel same sex marriage is wrong. If you had read my previous posts, you would have seen where I asked for others on this list to refrain from the nasty comments that were being tossed around.
    Last, I am an American, I know what freedom is about. And I am using my freedom of speech to voice my opinion. And I would defend anyone’s right to theirs as well, and I have defended that right for others on many occasions. If a person wants to be gay, that is fine. I don’t know the ins and outs of the life style, but I have met those who I believe were probably born gay and those who made a choice because of horrific circumstances surrounding their lives. I love my niece, she is bisexual, I have a nephew who is gay, I love him to death. I support them in being who they want to be, but I cant support marriage for same sex couples. So, because I don’t support same sex marriage, I am called a gay basher, bigot, and hateful person. I support my right keep my gun, does this make me a murderer? I eat meat so, Thomas and Helios if we follow your train of thought, then I also hate animals? No, I have two cats and a rabbit. I love my country and I cry when I think of those who lost their lives for no good reasons in places like Pearl Harbor, a Pennsylvania field, The Pentagon, and The Twin Towers. I don’t want America to fall as the Soviet Union did, or become so over populated that our children die in the streets from malnutrition, so I am therefore a racist. No, what I am is a concerned American. America is fast loosing who she is. What used to be clear, our beliefs and what we stand for, is dieing. The belief that freedom is a do what you want and there are no consequences attitude is killing our country. Say what you want, its your right. And my right is to fight for what I believe in.
    Next?

  19. Gabe on

    Thomas, you as a Christian should understand what I am saying. And as far as my comment you like so much, i do have an idea of how that sounds, but thank you for spinning it negatively, it really sheds a light on how you really feel.

  20. Alsee on

    The Beef … I’m sorry, did I miss something here? The public which makes the laws said, “No gay marriage in the State of California.”

    Yes, exactly as states had laws prohibiting interracial marriage. No difference.

    Yet the California Supreme Court said, “Yes!” Forgive me a moment, but aren’t the wishes of the public the lawmaker’s responsibility to represent?

    Again, exactly the same as the interracial marriage situation was.

    I believe marriage was only meant for a man and a woman. As a parent, I don’t want my children to see gay marriage as legal.

    Again, the exact same thing was said about interracial marriage.

    It’s not just my personal beliefs being cast aside, clearly my thoughts and values are in line with most of California’s population. Shouldn’t the Supreme Court be representing the voice and will of the majority in this instance?

    Again, was it or was it not entirely valid when the Courts legalized interracial marriage? Either it IS valid when the court does this or it’s NOT valid when the court does it. PICK ONE, it it right and proper for the courts to make such rulings, or it’s not.

    California has already provided the privilege of Domestic Partner Laws and Benefits for gay couples. Enough!

    Really? You think it would have been permissible – or even TOLERABLE – to uphold the laws against interracial marriage on the basis of offering some Separate-And-UnEqual “Domestic Partner Laws and Benefits” for interracial couples?

    It is time for the public to take back America.

    Yeah, racists were big on the whole “taking back America” thing too when the racist marriage aws were struck down by the courts.

    In November when this comes up on the ballot, just vote No! A clear message must be sent to our law makers that we have a voice, and when we use that voice, you have to follow our wishes. California is not for gay marriage.

    In the 2000 election Alabama has a ballot issue too. FORTY PERCENT voted in favor of a state constitution clause prohibiting interracial marriage. The exact same rallying cry to vote against marriage drags on.

    Californians have spoken, now the government must uphold the law.

    Constitutional law has spoken, both on interracial marriage and gay marriage. It’s time to uphold the law. The law has no business examining the race, gender, or religion of marriage applicants. The law has no business examining the race, gender, or religion of people to discriminate who is and is not eligible for the civil law status and benefits of civil marriage.

    There is not one single comment in The Beef against gay marriage that isn’t an EXACT replay of The Beef against interracial marriage.

    And as for public opinion on the subject, the battle is already over, most people just don’t know it yet. Public opinion on gay marriage is following exactly the same course that interracial marriage followed. It is a generational issue, in both cases the younger generation accepting equal marriage rights and the older generation clinging to “traditional” discrimination. No matter how many constitutional amendments are passed against it, in ten and twenty years gay marriage is following the same course as interracial marriage. The younger generation accept equal rights on this, and there is no force on earth that can stand against the power of a generational shift. The younger generation always wins, even if they have to bury the older generation to do it.

    The fighting may continue, but the war is over.

  21. Ken Letizia on

    Alsee, all good points, but you forget one thing, the major flaw in your arguement. In an interacial marriage, back then, it was for a man and woman, to be married and be in love. Not men on men and women on women. I think the public will have something to say about the California decision. But we will see later on how this goes.

  22. Thomas Colby on

    Ken and Gabe , You can say whatever you want about me, insult me, act like your above everyone, but it wont change the ignorance your spouting and I will not bother reading your posts.

  23. Alsee on

    Ken, how is that a “major flaw in my argument”? Actually, forget arguments. I will boil my comment down to four non-arguments, four statement-points. Try to forget the “should” vs “shouldn’t” issue, and try to objectively tell me which of the following four items you consider factually false.

    (1) Nearly argument and comment today against gay marriage are trivial rewordings of identical arguments and comments that were made against interracial marriage. In particular *every single word* of “The Beef” above (except the mention of Domestic Partnerships) can be trivially reworded to the identical arguments that were used against interracial marriage.

    True of False?

    (2) The pattern of events today (court battles, politics, public opinion for and against, etc) are substantially the same as the events surrounding the interracial marriage battle, with slight change in subject of the battle. In particular charges of “activist courts” are equally valid or equally invalid today as then, and a court “legislating from the bench” to “overrule the democratic legislature” or “overrule the people’s democratic will” is (in a purely legal sense) equally valid or equally invalid today as then.

    True or False?

    (3) It is in general unconstitutional for the law to examine the race, gender, or religion of people as a basis to grant or deny civil procedures and civil treatment. This is the meaning and the application of the 14th Amendment Equal Protection and Due Process clauses. Any attempt to carve out an exception to enable the law to discriminate between people on the basis of race, gender, or religion is in general a Very Bad Idea.

    True or False?

    (Two side notes here.
    One, the “problem” of gay marriages could certainly be solved by Constitutional Amendment to ban them – exactly as the “problem” of interracial marriages could be solved by Constitutional Amendment to ban them.
    Two, churches have the Constitutional Religious Freedom to preform or to not-preform any ceremony they wish. If a church wants to preform a wedding ceremony between a poodle and a toaster they have the freedom to do so, however that “wedding” has no status as a civil law marriage. A church also has every right to decline to marry left handed people, but civil law marriage licenses remain available to left handed people. This is all about civil law.)

    (4) In both cases there is a generational split with (dying)senior citizens being the segment most intensely resistant to change and the majority of the under 35s supporting it. In a generational shift the result is foreordained, the outgoing generation can do no more than fight a battle of delay.

    True of False?

    The above items are certainly inconvenient for cause against gay marriage, but I think it hard to argue them untrue.

    In my opinion about the most significant difference between then and now is that polls show acceptance of gay marriage raising *significantly faster* than acceptance of interracial marriage rose.

  24. Ken Letizia on

    Thomas, your the one who started calling me a gay basher, and now your saying I think I am above everyone. Thomas, as I said you have tried to paint me in a bad light. I am not a bad person, I just have my beliefs and you have yours. I respect your point of view and I would, have and will defend it, and your right to it. Will you allow me mine?
    Alsee, as a christian, I cant change your mind, and I dont want to. But fact is, your theory may have similarities, but the race marriage was still based in a man and woman’s rights. This is different. This is same sex, and with this country being founded in the name of God, and Justice, well, gay marriage doesnt belong here.
    False False False False.

  25. Ken Letizia on

    Thomas, please read “Bush gives up golf,” my post there.

  26. Thomas Colby on

    Alsee, Great writing!

  27. DeeBoo on

    I’m with Mike Malloy on this one. ALL RELIGIONS SUCK. And Letzia, for your information I’ve never seen a trailer park in my life, asswipe.

  28. Ken Letizia on

    Deeboo, now comeon. You have been in at least one or two. LOL comeon man, its all in good fun. Asswipe, that is classic. I love the come back on that one. I have to hand you the pen of power and say your the man.

  29. Thomas Colby on

    Gay Marriage is set to go into effect June 17th in California, I guess on June 18th the end of the world and the destruction of marriage begins, lol… NOT! Oh simple minds.

  30. Thomas Colby on

    Oh, and I guess “The Gay Adenda” is working, lol, also laughable. why? Cause there is no “gay adgenda”

  31. Thomas Colby on

    Oh NO! New York State will now recognize Gay Marriage/Civil Unions from other states! The end is near! LOL!

  32. Thomas Colby on

    Oh, and for the record, I think you all, including the outspoken Ken, lol, should be commended for at least having an opinion and actually blogging about it. Good Job!

  33. Kendal on

    If marriage between one man and one woman is so sacred, why do we allow divorce? Perhaps the best “Defense of Marriage Act” would be to ban divorce altogether. Seems like more than 50% of heterosexuals cannot get it right. I think this is the “Greedy American” view on relationships: “It’s mine, mine, mine! And you can’t have it! Even when I’m done with it, you can’t have it; I’ll just throw it away! It’s MINE!” Data shows that almost 50 percent of married people have affairs. Slightly over 70 percent are dissatisfied with their sex life, and 85 percent wish for more romance. If marriage between one man and one woman is so natural and normal, what accounts for these statistics?

    Some say gay couples always split up – can’t stay together. Have you ever known a straight person who split up with a boyfriend or girlfriend? Do you know a straight couple that tried living together and split up? Do you know any straight people who have been married then spit up? Do you suppose there are some heterosexual couples out there who will split up at some point in the future? Are there really any heterosexuals who married the first person they liked and stayed married for life?

    Maybe we should have a marriage test in order for people to get a license, because I’ve seen some really stupid people who had no business getting married and having children. Haven’t you seen this too? What about Britney Spear’s 55-hour marriage? Is this the definition of a sacred relationship?

    Is the sole purpose of marriage really just procreation? If a straight couple marries and chooses not to have children, is that a sinful relationship? Should we ban infertile individuals from marrying? What about senior citizens who choose to wed? Is it possible that marriage can be about love and companionship and commitment, and not just about adding to the world’s population?

    If you think we should ban gay marriage and adoption of children because kids need to have a mother and a father, what should we do with single parents? Recent government statistics show that 37% of babies are born in the U.S. out-of-wedlock. Should we force them to marry so there will be a mom and dad at home? Shall we take children away from single parents and give them to those infertile couples who married even though they cannot procreate? Is a single parent really better for kids than a same-gender couple?

    What about those parents who just aren’t very good at parenting, who neglect or ignore their children? Should we ban golf and bowling and poker to make sure dads will be home with their children? Is it possible there could be same-gender couples whose parenting skills are better than some dead-beat mom-and-dad couples? And what about those who are concerned about a child’s safety around a gay man? Need I remind you that FBI statistics show that 95 percent of child molesters are heterosexual?

    And what about interracial marriages? If you look back some fifty years ago, all anyone could ever remember was that white people married white people and people of color married their own kind. It was not until June 12, 1967, that the U.S. Supreme Court put an end to miscegenation laws, calling them unconstitutional. Until then, more than 40 states had at one time outlawed legal unions between blacks and whites, and by the time of the High Court’s decision, more than 15 still did. It took decades for all states to officially remove these laws from their books; Alabama did so just recently.

    The first Gallup poll conducted on the issue of interracial marriage was in 1958 and showed that 94% of whites opposed such unions – and while disapproval has lessened in recent decades, it’s hardly been a 180-degree shift. Obviously the vast majority of people did not like blacks marrying whites, and many felt that if we let blacks marry whites then next people would want the right to marry monkeys and horses and dogs. Is the majority always correct? Aren’t there still people who disapprove of interracial marriages? What do you think of their narrow views?

    The issue on the table is civil marriage, which has nothing to do with religion, but more with property rights, tax treatment, healthcare decision rights, employee benefit rights, etc. Many churches, including my own (United Church of Christ) are already performing same-sex weddings, so the religion and morality points are moot. If you view marriage as strictly a religious institution, why let the state regulate it at all? The Pilgrims came to America to escape state religion and the state’s control over religious freedoms. Do you really want the state to regulate your religious practices?

    Gay people don’t want special rights. We just want to give marriage and family a try like everyone else gets to. Even if we screw it up like many heterosexuals do. After all, isn’t living in America supposed to be about Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness?

  34. Thomas Colby on

    Awesome writing Kendal! Thank you! You made my day!

  35. Chantal on

    Are you kidding when you say you dont want you children to see gay marriage as legal? This is pure bull, what is the big deal if two homosexuals want to get married .. times are changing and marriage is no longer only for a man and woman. I must add that it is none of your business what two people do, they love each other and want to get married big deal. The majority of california dosnt want gay marriages to be legal, and the law has the right to put the minority before the majority, you are discriminating against a grouop of people, it is the same thing as being a rasism.

  36. Alsee on

    “False False False False.”

    You seem to be confusing truth with what you would want/like to be true. For example it only takes a few seconds on Google to verify the facts on this as a generational issue. The first Google hit I got is a news poll putting support for legal recognition of gay couples at 68% among the 18-29 age group. The polling percentages strictly following age brackets, with senior citizens being most opposed. The overall population polling on this and other gay-related issues (military service and adoption) have all been increasing at a fairly steady 1-2% per year.

    Facts do not become “false” merely because you don’t like them.

    By more than 2-to-1 the younger generation view this as a discrimination and equal rights issue, just like interracial marriage. Regardless of any arguments on either side of the issue, shear demographics makes it a forgone conclusion. To the extent people are changing their minds, they are changing in one direction. To the extent people aren’t changing their minds, they are getting buried. In five, ten, twenty years, it is inescapable that this is going to follow the same path as interracial marriage.

  37. Ken Letizia on

    They call it Holy Matrimony, for a reason. Holy in reference to being blessed by the Lord. They dont call it Unholy or Equality Matrimony, or We want equal rights matrimony. No, it is HOLY MATRIMONY. Homosexuals, cant engage in Holy Matrimony, because no church of God, will recognize this. And if they do recognize it, then they are just new age panderers, who play to whatever false profit will fall upon them. Sorry for your mis-understanding.
    So, no matter what your facts or falsehoods say, this issue is a moot point.
    So, no matter what your facts or falsehoods say, this issue is a mut point.

  38. Kendal on

    1. My church performs same-sex weddings and it’s one of the oldest denominations in the country.

    2. If marriage is so sacred, why do we allow divorce?

    3. And while we’re at it, exactly what did Jesus have to say about homosexuality?

    4. This issue on the table is civil marriage, which as nothing to do with religion.

    5. See more detailed comment above.

    In response to:
    Ken Letizia on June 19, 2008
    They call it Holy Matrimony, for a reason. Holy in reference to being blessed by the Lord. They dont call it Unholy or Equality Matrimony, or We want equal rights matrimony. No, it is HOLY MATRIMONY. Homosexuals, cant engage in Holy Matrimony, because no church of God, will recognize this. And if they do recognize it, then they are just new age panderers, who play to whatever false profit will fall upon them. Sorry for your mis-understanding.
    So, no matter what your facts or falsehoods say, this issue is a moot point.
    So, no matter what your facts or falsehoods say, this issue is a mut point.

  39. Ken Letizia on

    Kendal, the bible says, that homosexuals will boil in their own blood. Not a nice way to die. Many today argue AIDS is the boiling of the blood of homosexuals. I would hate to believe this as I have four very dear friends and two family members who are homosexual. I love them very much, and I dont want any of them to die of AIDS, or anyother disease for that matter.

  40. Snowy Owl on

    Ken, I have to say I have read all the things you’ve had to say, I somewhat agree. I am a christian and I also have family members who are gay and I love them with all my heart. However, GOD created man and then woman and when God said be fruitful and multiply, I believe he purposed from the begining that there would be unity between the man and woman (marriage) I don’t believe God’s plan was for man and man or woman and woman. I think God allows us fredom of choices in everything and he loves all of us the same. Do I agree with same sex marriage? Honestly, I’d have to say no. Would I judge someone who does, no because it’s not my place.
    You know, it’s kind of funny but you sound alot like a friend I know named Ken Letizia but haven’t talk to him for years.

    Viki

  41. Ken Letizia on

    Vicki, please write to me at shadowwolve63@aol.com. I cant believe its you!!!

  42. Ken Letizia on

    Viki Rock…. / Stag… I cant believe you found me in, of all places, THE BEEFS!!! I have missed you. I cant wait to talk.

  43. Kendal on

    Excuse me, but exactly which verse are you quoting? I could just as easily say “The Bible says that people who misquote the Bible will boil in their own blood.”

    In response to:
    Ken Letizia on June 23, 2008
    Kendal, the bible says, that homosexuals will boil in their own blood. Not a nice way to die. Many today argue AIDS is the boiling of the blood of homosexuals. I would hate to believe this as I have four very dear friends and two family members who are homosexual. I love them very much, and I dont want any of them to die of AIDS, or anyother disease for that matter.

  44. Kendal on

    So God said be fruitful and multiply. If a straight couple marries and chooses not to have children, is that a sinful relationship? Should we ban infertile individuals from marrying? What about senior citizens who choose to wed? Is it possible that marriage can be about love and companionship and commitment, and not just about adding to the world’s population?

    In response to:
    Ken Letizia on June 23, 2008
    Kendal, the bible says, that homosexuals will boil in their own blood. Not a nice way to die. Many today argue AIDS is the boiling of the blood of homosexuals. I would hate to believe this as I have four very dear friends and two family members who are homosexual. I love them very much, and I dont want any of them to die of AIDS, or anyother disease for that matter.

  45. Kendal on

    So, Ken Letizia, do you eat shrimp, catfish, lobster, crab, calamari, oysters, or clams (Lev. 11:10)? What about pork (Lev. 11:3)? Do you ever wear clothing made of blended fabrics, such as poly-cotton (Lev. 19:19)? Do you ever have more than one kind of plant in your garden (Lev. 19:19)? Do you cut your hair or shave (Lev. 19:27)? Have you ever worked on a Sunday (Exodus 35:2)?

    The Bible mentions many commandments and abominations that are completely ignored by most in modern society. I suspect if we dug enough into your personal life, we would find some that you do not follow religiously as well.

    John 8:7: When they kept on questioning Jesus, He straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone…

    In response to:
    Ken Letizia on June 23, 2008
    Kendal, the bible says, that homosexuals will boil in their own blood. Not a nice way to die. Many today argue AIDS is the boiling of the blood of homosexuals. I would hate to believe this as I have four very dear friends and two family members who are homosexual. I love them very much, and I dont want any of them to die of AIDS, or anyother disease for that matter.

  46. Kendal on

    Many would say that’s a ludicrous argument with absolutely no basis in science.

    In response to:
    Ken Letizia on June 23, 2008
    Kendal, the bible says, that homosexuals will boil in their own blood. Not a nice way to die. Many today argue AIDS is the boiling of the blood of homosexuals. I would hate to believe this as I have four very dear friends and two family members who are homosexual. I love them very much, and I dont want any of them to die of AIDS, or anyother disease for that matter.

  47. Ken Letizia on

    Kendal, you are probably right. I dont know for sure I wasnt there. But things are what they are. And God did intend for man and woman to procreate. As for me, well I am not the ideal image of Christianity. I do shave and I shave my head, I do eat pork and drink coffee. I do cuss and once in a while get into a fight. I have grown plants, not in a garden though, and I like poly blends, (I think) I love shell fish. If I could get on one of those ship on Deadliest Catch that is all I would eat. And I do work on Sundays, only if I have too. It is football and NASCAR day. I dont attend church refularly. So you dont have to dig into my life, just ask I will honestly tell you, “I suck as a Christian.” However, I do know right from wrong and I teach my kids that as well. Man and woman, are meant to love each other and procreate. Its simple. God didnt make Adam and Adam, or Eve and Eve. Had he done that, we wouldnt be having the discussion now, cause no one would be around to have it. Without Procreation, you have nothing! No gay man, and no Lesbian woman. That is undisputable.

  48. Ken Letizia on

    Where is STEVE?

  49. Ken Letizia on

    Has anyone heard from him? I have not heard from him in some time. Any info would be good.

  50. Ken Letizia on

    Has the beefs died?

  51. Ken Letizia on

    HA I told you, in California, we dont want gay marriage!

  52. We got to really appreciate the work done!!!!! keep it up.


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